Lent 2010

Comment

Comment by DarlingEve on April 6, 2010 at 10:41am

Amen, Jeff!

Comment by Jeff Siemens on April 4, 2010 at 8:55am

He is risen...!!! He is risen indeed...!!! It is a beautiful spring morning...quiet...only the birds chirping their sweet welcome to the sunrise...dew on the ground...white billowy clouds in a blue sky...and peace and joy in my heart...resurrection...celebration...mmmmmm...so sweet a story...the greatest story ever told...and we have been chosen...we have been rescued...oh death where is your sting!!!...oh sin where is your power now!!!...Lord Jesus...thank you for showing us the way...the truth...the life...may we follow You now wherever You lead us...Praise You...Alleluia...Praise You...Alleluia...Praise You...Alleluia...

Comment by AngelMom on April 4, 2010 at 1:56am

Happy Easter one and all! He is truly risen! Alleluia!

Comment by DarlingEve on March 28, 2010 at 8:15pm

As we head in to this final week, I want to check in with everyone. Was this time what you thought it would be? What has God solidified in your heart?

I have definitely been surprised by this journey through the desert. It was challenging -- God challenged me. He brought many things to the surface that had been buried deep. He opened my eyes to some wounds; he brought some healing. Most of all, I feel as though I have a renewed strength for whatever comes next. And for that, I just have one great, big, "Hallelujah!"

Comment by DarlingEve on March 28, 2010 at 7:52pm

Gary,

I appreciate your concern on the matter. I disagree with you that Lent is a Catholic concept. It became a tradition with the early church fathers long before there was such a thing as a "catholic" church. The rest of it, however, I am quite content to leave at a difference of opinion.

God be with you (and with us all) and we make this final push towards Easter!

Deona

Comment by Gary Paul Coon on March 28, 2010 at 4:25pm

Deona, Am I talking about apples or oranges? I tried to make it clear in my first post to you that I was not addressing Catholics but the RCC. Please don't misunderstand me. Maybe that was too many posts ago to be clear still. Maybe my analogy wasn't a good one. Sorry. I'm not addressing what you or anyone gets from your version of Lent. Now I wonder how many versions of Lent there are and if they are all called Lent.

I praise God for everyone who draws closer to the Lord any time any where. I do that too. What you're doing is not Lent in the true sense of it, but you may call it Lent and confuse the heck out of me. The concept for Lent and the word Lent are a Catholic invention. Your version is different than the original version which is great. You are not the one in the burning building. Thank God for all of you who are drawing closer to God. My one and only point is that I thought that Ransom Heart was a Christian website and the word Lent or the concept as it is popularly known by Catholics and others is not Biblical. It sounds like your version of Lent is sound. I'm not disputing that. Tell me about the penance Jesus did during His 40 days. What did he repent of?

I won't negate your 3 years of Greek if you won't negate my lifetime experience and facts about the RCC, and what the RCC says about itself on their website and what many other sources say.
Here is what Wikipedia says about penance: Penance is repentance of sins as well as the proper name of the Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox Christian Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation/Confession. It also plays a part in Lutheran non-sacramental confession. The word penance derives from Old French and Latin poenitentia, both of which derive from the same root meaning repentance, the desire to be forgiven; (in English see contrition). Penance and repentance, similar in their derivation and original sense, have come to symbolize conflicting views of the essence of repentance, arising from the controversy as to the respective merits of "faith" and "good works." Word derivations occur in many languages. Emphasis mine

Here is a reliable source commenting on the origin of Lent:
The word Lent comes from a Germanic root meaning Spring but is more often associated with the 40 days from Ash Wednesday to Easter Saturday. It originated in the Babylonian pagan religion, but was folded into Christianity when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as its official religion.

Here’s how it began. According to tradition Semeramis, the wife of Nimrod the King of Babylon, claimed she had been supernaturally impregnated by the Sun god and gave birth to Tammuz. One day while hunting, Tamuz was killed by a wild boar. Semeramis mourned for 40 days, at the end of which Tammuz was supposedly brought back from the dead. She proclaimed herself Queen of Heaven, founded a celibate priesthood to worship her son and declared its chief priest infallible, and memorialized her mourning in an annual 40 day period of denial. It was the world’s first counterfeit of the Biblical story of the Redeemer and grew into a mother-child cult that was duplicated in almost every pagan mythology.

If you feel the Lord is leading you into a 40 day period of self-deprivation to draw nearer to Him, more power to you. But if you’re just observing a tradition of man’s religion it won’t serve any purpose except to prove that you can go without something for 40 days.

Ask the Lord for guidance in this and follow the leading of His Holy Spirit.

Comment by DarlingEve on March 28, 2010 at 1:11pm

Gary, I think you are taking this particular discussion group out of context and I think that you are taking Lent out of context. This group was not started as a means to promote an agenda. Far from it. This group began as a way for us to share our experiences of God throughout the season prior to Easter. And if you take the time to read through some of our discussions, you'll see that it has proved a fruitful time for many of us.

I did read those pages that you posted. But I stand by earlier posts equating penance and repentance. I am not a Catholic, I have no affiliation with the Roman Catholic Church, or really with any denomination. Lent is not the sole property of the RCC -- in fact it existed before the RCC did. When I say penance, I am not using the Roman Catholic definition (at least as you have presented it). I am using the exact definition that I gave you.

As for whether I can back up Lent biblically -- I believe I can. I base my experience of Lent on the 40 days that Jesus spent in the desert. He set aside wordly things, he fasted, and he prepared himself for temptation, while strengthening his relationship with the Father. He was without sin so it was not necessary for him to examine any sins he may have committed. I however, have sinned, and in order for me to be set free from them (not atoned for, not forgiven, set free from) I must be sorry and ask for forgiveness. Thus I do penance (acknowledge my sin and ask for forgiveness) and I repent (turn back to God that I may sin no more).

Finally, I feel it necessary to remind you that there are people here (myself included) for whom this Lenten season has been a powerful time of reconnecting with God. I personally can attest to the fact that as I have observed Lent this year, that God has shown up in a big way, and that my relationship with him has never been stronger. Why would you want to detract from that?

If Lent isn't for you, understood. But God has called the people here to this, he has blessed the time that we have set aside for him for Lent. You may not agree with it, you may not understand it. But God does. And he is honoring those of us who are participating. The only thing that is burning in the building that we're in is the Holy Spirit.

Comment by Gary Paul Coon on March 27, 2010 at 9:51pm

If you saw people trapped in a burning building and they didn't even know it was on fire wouldn't you try to free them? Wouldn't you want to scream "FIRE!!"? If I wanted to give them the opportunity to be free as I was freed would you say the I have animosity against the fire? I pity those people. I even pity the ones holding them in the building. When I was a Catholic I was not a Christian. If someone called me a Christian I probably would've called them a Bible thumper and a few other choice names. Like the Catholic priests, nuns, and my friends, I was at odds with Christians. They were weird. I was taught RCC doctrine by what I would consider a good sample of Catholic-trained priests, nuns, monsignors, lay teachers, etc. I went to parochial school and did the whole nine yards. I was thoroughly steeped in the Mass, the Sacraments, indulgences, etc. I know what Lent is to a Catholic. I know what penance is to a Catholic. I am very familiar with purgatory. I emulated the nuns' and priests' disdain for non Catholics, Christians and especially the CCD'ers. I made little altars to the Queen of Heaven (the Virgin Mary). I lit candles. I wore scapulars. I did the rosary as prescribed. I crossed myself properly. I did the stations, etc. I was confirmed. when I was old enough to start thinking for myself it became empty. Meaningless. Actually it was very sad. Doing lent was a band aid for me. And, like I say, I did it as prescribed by those who represented the RCC.

Did you read the RCC pages about Lent and penance? If you did you would not say that penance is the same as repentance. Nowhere in my Catholic upbringing did I hear what you described as penance. In my many meetings and conversations with Catholics since then have I ever heard this. The RCC used the word atonement and satisfaction. What did they say about it? Check it out. They teach and infer that salvation is by works ie doing the sacraments. Have you ever heard of the reformation? I wonder why that happened.
The old saying is true- power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I believe that the purest of churches, even my beloved church, would become corrupt given enough time. But that doesn't excuse any abuse. The RCC has put itself in the place of Christ. If I can't hear Him speak to me through His Holy Spirit then all I get is second or third hand information from someone who I can only guess is representing God accurately. Pity.
I go back to my first question- can you show me the concept of Lent, that is can you back up what you believe, and what you're telling me, from the Bible? Don't take my word for it. Search for yourself.
There are many many Catholics who believe the truth. But if they do it may go against the teachings of the RCC. Uh-oh.

Comment by DarlingEve on March 27, 2010 at 8:59pm

Gary, I hear what you are saying, and I understand that there have been abuses by the Roman Catholic Church (and every religion for that matter). However, you are ignoring my point about penance. The word did not originate with the Roman Catholic Church. The word penance and the word repentance have the same root word in Latin, they are basically two different words describing the same action. Before we can repent, or turn back (as you said) we first have to be sorry for our wrong actions. This means acknowledging the wrong action and asking forgiveness. Nowhere does it imply that penance atones for sin. I don't think that anyone here is suggesting that. Penance simply means that I go to God and acknowledge my sin and ask for forgiveness.

I think that you may be confusing penance with atonement. There is nothing that we could ever do to atone for our sins. Praise God we don't have to. The blood of Christ is our atonement and it is absolute.

However, even though we are saved we still sin. At least I do. It breaks my heart to say it, I do my very best to never let it be intentional, but I do still sin. And while I believe that my sins are atoned for, that there is nothing that I can/need to do to make it right before God, I still need to acknowledge my sin and ask for forgiveness. This is part of a relational experience. Recently, someone very dear to me, but on a slippery slope "borrowed" my car without permission. When I went to use it next, it was unable to be driven. I knew what had happened, I knew what this person had done, and I knew that I wasn't going to hold it against him, I absolved him of it before he even knew that I knew. But, it would have made a world of difference if he had come to me, told me that he knew he had made a mistake, and asked for my forgiveness. For me, forgiveness was not an option, he was forgiven no matter what. But there is now a dent in our relationship, a space between us -- not on my part, but on his.

Penance (acknowledging sin, and asking God's forgiveness) then is how we let God know that we want to be reconciled to him - it is not a means of atonement but of enhancing our relationship to the Father.

I would also like to make a point about liturgy. By definition, liturgy is a form by which service (worship or other) is conducted. Liturgy was not created after Constantine, it was in fact in place long before. Look at the forms of the worship services of the Old Testament -- that's liturgy. The first apostles had very basic liturgies of Word and table and hymn singing, Jesus observed the liturgy of the Passover meal. There is nothing wrong with form or formulas. Jesus himself gave a formula for praying. It's when the form of worship becomes more important than God that there becomes a problem.

Lastly, in your writings it seems that you have a deep animosity for the Roman Catholic Church. I would gently remind you, that they, too, are your brothers and sisters in Christ, that they, too, are sons and daughters of God. They might not always get it right (none of us do this side of heaven), but God's heart is for His Bride, which would include members of the RCC.

Deona

Comment by Gary Paul Coon on March 27, 2010 at 7:10pm

So, Deona, as you read those 2 RCC pages you should have noticed the emphasis on doing penance to help atone for your sins. They called it satisfaction. The Mormon church also believes this. They took it a step further. During the rough days of the wild west they had their own justice system, courts and all, to convict wrongdoers. Not lawbreakers, wrongdoers of the Mormon statutes. It took the US government to stop them. Same with the inquisition. Christians were killed for believing in the Bible. One of the big issues was the eucharist. If you didn't say that the bread was literally turned to the body of Jesus you died. The torture only stopped when the tide of public opinion turned as the truth of the gospel started to get out- when the Bibles were unchained. When regular folks like you and me got to read the Bible for themselves and discovered truth they were set free of religion. It happened to me, too.

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