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Comment by Valerie on November 6, 2012 at 4:32pm

Hi Mike, Did you consider that she might not have stalker issues if there was someone standing beside her? That doesn't mean you are the man God intends to stand beside her, but 5 dates w/ work getting in the way doesn't seem to be much of a presence for her to feel safe and she has to do what she needs to in order to feel safe. It doesn't sound like God has granted the relationship that love that casts out fear. She can't be her own man and make it all safe. It doesn't sound like she would even know that you are serious about her. Frankly, it sounds like it is about you and you want it easy. Don't get me wrong, we all do. For me, it's the final frontier and I have to be ready to make mistakes and to find someone with the grace and mercy to accept me anyway. I have to do the same for him. I want to find someone to share life with...that means the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. Time is going by and you can analyze all you want...maybe your fantasy relationship is more fulfilling than one in real life but I can't imagine that to be true. I want someone who stretches my thinking and only real people do that. I think the person you are waiting for is you to become someone who can take a risk and be confident you can work w/ God for it to be something good. While you ponder your growth and her situation she could be hit by a bus and you would be in the same place you were before. If you made a committed relationship w/ her, then you would have some great memories about the times you shared before she got hit by a bus. I sound heartless, but I'm not much younger than you. Good luck.

Comment by Valerie on October 27, 2012 at 10:54am

Thank you both for your sharing on this topic. It really helped me gain some clarity on issues I've been dealing with. Sometimes I'm the pearl and sometimes I'm the swine! Praise God and so it goes, always a mixed bag, moment by moment. Resting in God...then cherishing pearl moments and corraling the swine moments w/ the help of the Holy Spirit. Hoping to find that mutuality you speak of. Despite our circumstances, we are God's gems if we chose it. Our thoughts can be gems but we absolutely need to keep a fence between us and the swine. We can visit their pen, we can feed them when the spirit calls, but we need a strong fence w/ a reminder that they absolutely will bite and if we stay in our place on the other side of the fence, we can interact at a distance, but not be suprised or offended when we put our hand in and get bit. Hang out with them and the stench will cling..time for another washing and renewal of our minds by the One who loves us. As for the prodigal son, it can be a place of transformation should they look to the father and He calls them out. But just because He loves them, doesn't automatically require us to put the pearls under their feet. Breaks my heart to think your mother doesn't cherish her daughter. It's more common than one would like to think. Hoping you both find and cherish the pearls God puts before you today.

Comment by Randy Moore on October 26, 2012 at 3:11pm

You're welcome Jeanne. Hope those words helped.

Comment by Jeanne Robinson on October 26, 2012 at 1:00pm

:) thanks Randy

good words.

Comment by Randy Moore on October 26, 2012 at 11:41am

Ladies, both of you are right on! If you have a broken wrist and every hour I walk by and smack your hand; eventually the ends of the bones will heal over and you will have a permanently broken wrist. Then the doctors will have to operate and shave the ends of the healed over bones off, put in a plate and screws before your wrist will heal properly. OR.......... You can remove the source of irritation (me walking by every hour and smacking your hand) and then your broken wrist will heal properly. 

Long story to say, sometimes we have to distance ourselves from those who are not HEALTHY for us.

Relationships are two way. Both sides pour into each other. If it is one sided it is an abusive relationship!!! 

Spend time pouring into those who will receive it. I remember something about not casting your pearls before swine that I think would apply in this situation. You can spend a lifetime of wasted effort trying to pour into someone who is not willing to receive. Jesus spent a lot more time pouring into those who were willing to receive than He did on those who would not.

Blessings!!!!

Comment by Jeanne Robinson on October 26, 2012 at 9:06am

sorry, me again.  

what is mine to do and what is God's to do...  

there's another of those vexing things to discern hahaha.  

anyone got a roadmap for that one?

Comment by Jeanne Robinson on October 26, 2012 at 8:19am

Oh Valerie so well said.

lots here.  good stuff too. i too understand that disorientation after losing the weight of some spiritual burden that was never mine to carry.  and am working out how to function without it as well.

you mentioned discernment of waiting and allowing a person to be who they are not expecting but to balance that with - are they someone (for lack of a better word here) 'worth' giving the time and effort to allow them to grow, with grace.  here is the sticky part for me, after all these years holding out that God is going to do great work in someone i love (my mom) and pouring my heart into her loving her holding her up to Him.  Is it time to walk away?  Seems so to me at this time because she has told me in no uncertain terms that she wants nothing to do with my life other than for me to serve her. and her alone.  so i have come to the conclusion (with much grief) that i must hold my heart away from her and not allow those arrows in any longer.

loving her and liking her are two different things.  i do love her.  she has told me that she does not love me.  i accept that. and i know that has been a formative force in my life because I've always known that.  whatever the reasons ...

in my life i look to people's hearts for who they are, what they believe, if they are someone to invest in. i find value in almost everyone and love them as best i can where they are. but if they cover their hearts to the point that i cannot see them for who they really are then i am at a loss as to what to do with them.

i do not hold hatred for anyone any longer, often much pity for the state of pain they are in.  but i must avoid this kind of toxic black hole in people who would suck love from me and give nothing in return.  i have yet to figure out how to be safe from them so right now i choose to avoid as much as possible.

i trust that God my father my lover my friend holds my heart in safety and directs my path so that even in this shadow of death i do not fear.  i know love and i know security because of Him.  

it's these infernal people that have me vexed! (joke there) 

at any rate i much appreciate your words and viewpoint.  too often i get stuck inside myself and cannot see out there where others are..

i figure I've got a lot left to do here, else i'd be with my love in complete freedom.  what i can learn from others is helping me do what i'm here for i believe.

yes indeed quite a discussion!

much love!!!!!

Comment by Valerie on October 26, 2012 at 7:57am

Hi, This is quite the discussion. I have had some hard lessons in this area. I too want that kind of intimate friendship where I know someone will watch my back. I agree with the circles and it must be fluid. I know the desire for truth in church leadership etc. It's hard not to hope they would lead as God would. The truth is, they can't. They lead as people would. I hear that your mother's coping and self-protection brought wounds to you and for that I am truly sorry. The dysfunction in families is so damaging as I know it from my own. I was against the posers as well. Perhaps we should consider that they pose for reason that is deeply their own. Am questioning whether it is good and right to require them to give it up. am thinking that is God's place. Can I require from them what I need because I need it? Or, should I turn to God for provision. I can only try hard to accept and receive should they can and chose to offer. If I don't spend time with them, I'll never know for sure if they really have what I think they do, or if they had it and lost OR never had it to begin with. Grace and mercy must enter the picture for ourselves and for them. For me, it always comes down to clarifying what is mine to do, what is God's to do, and what I must trust that some how they will do. What is mine to do includes figuring out what I want to do and who do I want to be should they disappoint and fail as they will at times. Then I can figure out how much I can risk in a wise way. Is God granting me the grace to love them abundantly as He has me or do I need to invest some where else. I hear your pain. The other aspect is that none of it is canned and guaranteed, though we want guarantees. New awareness can change the whole dynamic. For example, I was given new awareness by God regarding forgiveness at a whole new level. I has brought a peace that I didn't know I was missing. Now I am struggling to find my balance after losing the spiritual weight I didn't know I was carrying. I am still wide-eyed in wonder how to live given my new understanding. It's good but scary. Only you know what energy and resources you have...no one can judge them for you although they will and they will have expectations based on their judgement of you. Through it all God is good. This discussion as renewed my efforts to focus on the kindness and care to be found, not that which I do not have or have lost. Blessings to you.

Comment by Jeanne Robinson on October 26, 2012 at 7:03am

hmmmmm

I'm wondering if I'm being misunderstood here ...

Please let me clarify?

I was raised in southern Cali where as a kid we rebelled against the 'plastic people' - aka posers as I call them.  My mom was one of the best.  I don't think she really exists or at least I've never seen the real person behind all the masks. My mom has never come out and has never loved beyond her own self.  That's a long story in itself.... But, as a result I came to loathe people who were not themselves, not true, not real.  

Now because love and acceptance has been given to me (or I've found what was available from Jesus) I can also extend that to others, posers or not.  But the ones that I open my whole heart to are few and far between and only in the recent past have I been able to find people that I considered my heart truly safe with.  And yes Randy there are circles of friends that extend out as you described from all inclusive to lesser and lesser.  I agree with you there whole heartedly.    

So I'm not saying that I think believers should 'cram' truth down others throats.  I'm saying that as a believer I have to live from that truth, from that love, as best I can.  Accepting people who are not willing to even allow a glimpse into who they are is difficult for me but I am willing to try and I do.  The ones that give me the most problems however are the religious groups that are too afraid to admit failure or errors in life and are all about how they look on the outside.  That lie is exactly what Jesus was combating with the pharisees long ago.

Looking for truth in others to me involves a degree of trust and openness that as people get to know each other opens up further and further until either that trust is broken and one pulls back or a bond is made and good friendship takes place.  With some - things just don't click - and that's OK   I'm just trying to figure out how to get to that first place of friendship with people because it seems more and more difficult for folks to allow another in.

And yes I'm seasoned myself at 58, but still learning and growing and consider myself long from the end of the journeys goals.  It is really wonderful to have people here that take the time to communicate and share their hearts.

Blessings!

Comment by Randy Moore on October 26, 2012 at 6:40am

I agree with Valerie. The more seasoned I become the more I realize how damaging and restricting being "real" or "open" with many other can be. Not to be a poser or lie. Sometimes our openness will prevent us from being able to be used by God later in that person's life.

I look at our circle of friends as target. Most people are in the outer ring. As we get to know people they might move in to the next ring and so on. The Bull's-eye(center) contains 2 or 3 friends that you can share about anything with. The next circle out has maybe 5 to 8. The next after that maybe 12 to 15 and son on. As people come into your life and you get to know them better they move inward or outward. This happens all throughout our life. I speak from much experience(many hard lessons learned) here.

Peace in your journey

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